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Anonymous
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22 May 2012 1:41AM
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I don't care what you call your political self. If you think the same people that ruined the economy are even WILLING to fix it, let alone can fix it. Then allow me to lay some shit down for you think about.

First lets establish the culprits in this sitch. Well Obama had just been swarn in to the senate in 2005 when the housing bubble,the Credit Default Swap market and 2 wars backed by massive tax cuts began a perfect storm for the coming of 2008.

Now, if you don't know what Credit Default Swaps are, I'll break it down. It's basically bunches of private citizens credit bundled and sold/bet on/leveraged or w/e. They were started in the early 90's and all the way to 1999 were only worth 300 billion. Very early in the the Bush first term they were deregulated and went from a minor way for banks to have some security in investments and then turned into a speculation and investor market. By 2002 they had reached 2 trillion in holdings. By 2007 it was over 60 trillion.

Lets think about this for a second. If it's Obamas fault that gas prices are (honestly not even as high as they were during katrina which the republicans did nothing about) as high as they are. Then it must be Bush and the republicans fault that all this deregulation and massive debt betting and hedging that started the collapse of our economy.

Now that this is all established. And is factual. Lets scale this down to something we all can relate to. Lets say you have a house. And the house is the country in 2008. And in the house the plumbing breaks and floods because you had some shoddy work done by a plumber between 2000 and 2007. Do you really think it's not going to take a SHIT load of money to fix that? Do you really think that you won't be losing money to fix something that just destroyed your house?

The idea that it's Obamas fault that the national debt is high because he had to fix something that he didn't cause is pure fallacy. Even if there's a couple of talking points like "clean energy" or "drilling and pipe lines" for you to grab hold of like a life jacket. It doesn't change the fact that you have to spend to fix what's broken. And sometimes it's SO f'd up that you're not going to think you're getting your moneys worth (IE the promise of 8% unemployment). Sometimes you just have to be thankful that things are getting better at all. And be damned happy that you're not letting that old shitty plumber back here to fix anything...

I understand you .. guys, don't like having to think about anything but what a paid media spokesman tells you. And don't like reading anything that doesn't fit in a one sentence sound byte. But I hope you try to read it and understand my meaning and know that it takes money not only to make money, but to fix a ton broken f'd up mistakes that were made. And again, it's a lot easier to make a problem than it is to fix it PROPLERLY. And further, sometimes NO ONE knows how to fix it at first or second or third looks. This simple fact can be scaled to most any economical,physical and mental breakdowns or problem or what have you..

Sooo... discuss. Or go fap and think about it and come back later and discuss.

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Zagg
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22 May 2012 10:22AM

Both parties, which answer to the same paymasters, are culpable. Neither party will "fix" things, at least if "fix" things makes it possible for ordinary working people to have a decent life. If people keep voting for them, we'll get more of the same.

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Anonymous
22 May 2012 2:02PM

...isnt this a porn cite? dnt make me think and fap...

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Anonymous
22 May 2012 2:03PM

Chuck Norris Clint Eastwood 2012

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Zagg
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10 Jun 2012 4:02PM

They're opening a restaurant called 2012?

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Anonymous
11 Jun 2012 3:31AM

Wow, that was so bad I forgot to laugh.

Wisdom overcomes all ignorance if people learn it. Educate yourself, TYT and RT america on youtube.

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chrispimpin77
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22 May 2012 2:37PM

Lol no they will never learn because they are spoon fed these political beliefs and gobble it up like a hooker on payday. Its so much easier for most to pick a side and become oblivious to what's really going on in the world. It's sad really, people have traded their liberties for laziness. It is why the government we have now knows they have total control of the masses and need not worry about the few of us who actually think with our own thoughts.

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Anonymous
22 May 2012 4:22PM

Credit Default Swaps? LOL! People making money on financial degradation. Capitalism�.gotta love it!

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Zagg
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22 May 2012 4:38PM

It sure beats working.

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Anonymous
23 May 2012 3:30PM

U.S. Capitalism and Socialist "Crony" Capitalism aren't the same thing. Learn ghe difference, Einstein.

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Anonymous
22 May 2012 8:13PM

Such a powerful arguement seems to blast all conservative trolls from it's path OP. Good job.

Wisdom overcomes all ignorance if people learn it. Educate yourself, TYT and RT america on youtube.

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22 May 2012 10:14PM

"Turn voting on national issues over to the people" LOL. thats funny OP. I would like to see that commical scene where lobbyists are paying off the bums off the street for his vote, and having them laughing all the way to the bank. Cause if it ever came to that, it WOULD happen.

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Anonymous
23 May 2012 2:49AM

OP here.I could see something that going on like an experiment for sure, hehe.

Anyway, I'm not saying it's a good idea. Just that with all the connectivity available thanks to electronics and internet. That it would be nice to see. maybe we're not actually ready to govern ourselves. Who knows.

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Zagg
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23 May 2012 10:32AM

If not now, when?

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Zagg
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24 May 2012 10:28AM

The question of self-government is one that our right-wingers avoid at all costs.

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Zagg
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31 May 2012 12:54PM

And still no one willing to address the question of self-government.

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chrispimpin77
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24 May 2012 11:28AM

That's just it no one wants the real responsibility that would go along with actually having to make decisions. They would rather have elected officials so they can complain when things don't work out. Scapegoat mentallity for the most part. It's one of the many reasons other countries view us as soft.

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Zagg
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24 May 2012 10:09PM

There's probably some truth to that, at least for those that have actually thought about the question. But I suspect that most people haven't thought about it. To the extent that they have, they think that it's having "representatives". The idea of living without the state has never occurred to them, which is a condition that the state strongly encourages.

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31 May 2012 5:15AM

bump

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Anonymous
05 Jun 2012 3:43PM

OK Zagg, heres a response to adress your question. Mankind is incapable of governing themselves. Hardly anyone is capable of being un-biased on anything and look on an issue logically (one only has to read the motherless threads).

And if you want to get religious about it, as soon as mankind knew about �good� and �evil� he was fucked. That was the big argument between Lucifer and God, that mankind cannot govern themselves. God lets us �free wheel� it and let us do as we please to try to win his side and show Lucifer we can do it. But it seems we are failing.
Society is poision. And regardless of your fears on the idea, mankind would be better off governed by non-biased computers.

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Zagg
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05 Jun 2012 4:09PM

That's a widely held opinion, certainly. Since a non-biased computer isn't at present an option, we're left with the questions of who should be governed and who should do the governing. Are you capable of governing yourself? If so, what makes you different to other people? Is anyone capable of governing himself? If not, then no one is capable of governing others. If so, who? How do we recognize them? And how do we put them into government?

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Zagg
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08 Jun 2012 12:01PM

The guy had a decent point, but apparently he's not going to follow up on it. I'm still not convinced that people can't govern themselves. It's incumbent upon those who disagree to say who should do the governing.

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damndyankee
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08 Jun 2012 4:38PM

I don't get this idea that we can't self govern. That's what America was based on essentially. But the only way to do it (weather it be anon for the sake of ones safety or orderly due to lack of space to provide a forum where everyone could speak or distance from populated areas) was with voting on paper. And now here we sit on the very piece of technology that can connect us all and no one is even talking about it. Or maybe I haven't found that blog yet. It takes all the laziness out of it, well cept the reading required. But even that could be handled by breaking things down for people in a "layman's terms" style summary for anyone that prefers it.

I have obviously thought about this enough to see how it could work. I've even considered a comic book (Im an artist) with this as the style of governing in it. I just can't imagine more people saying no than would say yes.

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Zagg
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08 Jun 2012 4:44PM

I'm not even sure that technology is all that relevant. The opposition to self-government has always been political, not technological. But you're spot on when you say that self-government was what the American Revolution was all about. The founding fathers might not have had as expansive a notion of who should be governing themselves as we do, but they sure thought that it applied them. But that idea has certainly just about disappeared from American politics. The Right is downright opposed to the idea (as it always has been) and the Left has either abandoned it or lacks the courage to fight for it. Let us know when you get that comic book finished.

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